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  #1  
Unread 05-26-11, 10:22 AM
neron2004 neron2004 is offline
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SID Wings

I'm close to buy a 337 (FTB-337 G) under "F" registration (europe)

My mechanic warned me about SID on the wings of the 337 and this is extremely expensive. (and SIDs are compulsory for aircraft "F" !)

I can't find specific information about this SID.

Do you know what happen ?


Thanks for any input.
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  #2  
Unread 05-26-11, 11:50 AM
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Ernie Martin Ernie Martin is offline
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Others are more up to date than me, and they can jump in here and augment my answer, but here's where I think things stand:

The last "sticky" thread contains much of what is known of the SIDs and you should read it carefully. The SIDs were circulated in draft form to selected Skymaster users in August of 2009 and Cessna indicated its intention then to have them published in 2010. They are NOT expected to be required for Part 91 operators in the U.S., unless one or more of the SIDs become ADs, which is considered highly unlikely unless an accident exposes a serious problem.

One of the net effect of the draft SIDs, as they stood when last seen, is that the wings and booms need to be separated from the main aircraft body, which is quite expensive. But the draft SIDs affect not only the wings but many other elements of the aircraft, and some of these other SIDs are also costly.

The user community felt that many of the SIDs were unnecessary as written and even risky, with the possibility of making the aircraft LESS reliable, showed Cessna why, and offered suggestions that would ensure the continued airworthiness of the aircraft without the risk and the enormous costs of the draft SIDs. I don't believe Cessna was persuaded, so it's possible the SIDs -- whenever published -- may be close to the draft versions.

However, not much seems to have happened over the past year or so. Currently, there doesn't appear to be a rush at Cessna to publish the SIDs. There may be some indications that personnel changes or reductions at Cessna, perhaps due to the economy, has derailed the program, at least temporarily.

So, in summary, the draft SIDs are onerous, Cessna has not appeared receptive to changes, but the issuance of the SIDs may be in limbo.

Ernie

Last edited by Ernie Martin : 05-26-11 at 12:06 PM.
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  #3  
Unread 05-26-11, 03:43 PM
neron2004 neron2004 is offline
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Thank you for this information.

Do you think it is hazardous to invest now in a 337 ("F" registered ) with the risk of being forced to apply the SIDS ?

Or is the risk very low to see the SIDs published soon ?
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  #4  
Unread 05-26-11, 05:41 PM
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Ernie Martin Ernie Martin is offline
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I can't give you an answer. Maybe others in this Board have a better feel for when (or if) the SIDs will ever be published. My guess is that no one knows.

Considering its safety features, I think the Skymaster is a bargain for Part 91 operators who are not subject to the SIDs. For those like you who must comply with SIDs, a rough approximation is that the aircraft cost will double if the draft SIDs are published unchanged.

Ernie
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  #5  
Unread 05-29-11, 06:36 AM
neron2004 neron2004 is offline
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Thanks Ernie for your informations.

The 337 that interests me is a FTB337-G witch build by "Reims Cessna Aviation" and used by Portugal army.
Someone said me that this model will not be concern by the SIDs ? is it true ?

I beleive that all models of 337 (include FTB337-G) wil be concern by this SID !



Also, is someone could send me the SIDs project of cessna ?

Thanks,

Last edited by neron2004 : 05-29-11 at 06:40 AM.
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  #6  
Unread 05-29-11, 11:35 AM
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Ernie Martin Ernie Martin is offline
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The O2 aircraft built specifically for the U.S. military MAY be excempted, but I don't know. The 337s, whether built in the U.S. or France, and regardless of who used it, are subject to the SIDs if the aviation authority of the country requires it. So a 337 with Australian registration and flying in Australia will have to comply, because it's my understanding that Australia requires it. I think the same is true in France and most other European coutries, but you would have to inquire.

Regarding the actual draft SIDs, Cessna did not release them publicly, to the best of my knowledge. You may write to Larry Bowdish at to see if he can furnish them to you. Material over a year old that I prepared for SOAPA is available online but the information may be outdated.

The first data is an analysis of FAA Service Difficulty Reports (SDRs), which Cessna indicated was the basis for the SIDs. In essence, if 35 years of reporting had shown problems in one area, then that area was investigated and likely became the subject of a SID. We concluded differently, finding that Cessna had written SIDs for areas where there had never been problems or where the problems had clearly nothing to do with aging and were either manufacturing defects or user overstress. That first data may be found by going to and clicking on the first horizontal gold line on the 2011 Index at the left of the page.

Abbreviated excerpts of the SIDs, with manpower estimates and our engineering opinion on their validity, may be found by going to the same page and clicking on the second horizontal gold line on the 2011 Index at the left of the page.

Read carefully the caveats because much may have changed. Think of this as just giving you a flavor of what was being considered a year and a half ago.

Ernie Martin
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  #7  
Unread 05-31-11, 08:17 PM
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SID Information

A lot of good information on the SID program is available in the thread link below. Neron 2004, have you read this info? It is really hard to just give you a quick answer on your questions. As far as I know today the SID program is still moving forward. It will affect you in Europe much differently than the USA. I would assume once the Inspections are published that your Type F registration will require the inspections. I don't know this for sure but can only speculate based on other Service Bulletins published and how other countries have enforced them. I have been in contact with Cessna but I do not have any different or new report at this time. Their original intent was to have some of the documents published last fall but as we all know these programs can be delayed.



I highly encourage you to review the thread above for more information and to understand the foundation of these documents.
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  #8  
Unread 06-02-11, 11:10 PM
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Ernie Martin Ernie Martin is offline
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To avoid confusion, Neron 2004, please note that the very first piece of info I provided was "The last "sticky" thread contains much of what is known of the SIDs and you should read it carefully." That thread is the same thread as the one in Herb's message above.

Ernie
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  #9  
Unread 06-08-11, 01:14 PM
Dave Underwood Dave Underwood is offline
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Just a question if I may.

Is the aircraft already on the F reg?

Dave
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